Keith Wann sues TDF alleging racial discrimination over “Lion King” interpreting gig
A hearing/CODA ASL interpreter, Keith Wann, filed a discrimination lawsuit against Theater Development Fund (TDF) and its director Lisa Carling on Tuesday, November 8.
The lawsuit was featured in the NY Post and Fox News in recent days and there’s a big reaction and controversy in the Deaf community over it.
The lawsuit from Wann said the TDF, which is a New York City based nonprofit organization that strives to provide deaf and other disabled people with accessible experiences to watch live theatre and dance performances, discriminated against Wann because they retracted an offer for him to interpret a Broadway production of “The Lion King” because he is white.
The lawsuit explained that on March 29 of this year, Wann was offered an independent contractor opportunity to be an ASL interpreter for a performance taking place about a month later. The pay would be $1,000. Wann accepted the offer. Four days later, Wann received an email from the TDF asking him to back out of the interpreting job because it wouldn’t be appropriate for a white interpreter to represent Black characters.
For context, according to a person familiar with the performance, “The Lion King” has a cast that is made up of all Black actors with the exception of an Asian actor. I was also informed that there were several Black Deaf people in the audience watching the interpreted performance in April.
The lawsuit said the TDF “prevented (Wann) from freely contracting his services as an ASL interpreter because of his race” and that it was a violation of a federal civil rights law, 42 USC, Section 1981.
The law guarantees that all persons in the U.S. are able to have the same business opportunities (contracts) as what white people have. Here is the text — I got this except for Cornell Law School’s website.
[Full-screen image of text that reads, “[“42 U.S. Code § 1981 - Equal rights under the law.” “(a)Statement of equal rights: All persons within the jurisdiction of the United States shall have the same right in every State and Territory to make and enforce contracts, to sue, be parties, give evidence, and to the full and equal benefit of all laws and proceedings for the security of persons and property as is enjoyed by white citizens, and shall be subject to like punishment, pains, penalties, taxes, licenses, and exactions of every kind, and to no other.”]
The lawsuit said Wann was discriminated against “on the basis of race in the making of a contract.” It requested the court, at the minimum, to award Wann $1,000 in compensatory damages and cover attorneys’ fees and related costs.
I reached out to the TDF to comment on the situation, but they did not respond. I also reached out to Shelly Guy, who was named as one of the people who worked with the TDF as a part of the decision-making process, but Guy said due to the current lawsuit, she is declining to comment.
I reached out to Wann and he was willing to sit down for an interview with his attorney, John Pepper. Here it is.
[Begin interview]
Alex: Hello. Thank you for being willing to make time to do an interview. It is clearly a very hot issue in our community and in the national media. I want to understand the basic timeline. Can you, Keith, explain how you got this opportunity? Did you seek out the “Lion King” job or did they contact you? And with the $1,000 payment, was it for per performance or for a set amount of dates? Just for clarification purposes.
Keith Wann: Thank you, Alex. I appreciate being here. So, how did it happen? Around the end of March, I was contacted by the TDF’s program manager. They said that they had a three-person interpreting team who were BIPOC. They said that it just happened that for the upcoming April performance, two of the interpreters were not available. They asked if I was available. So, I’m on their shortlist because I have interpreted many times for other plays of different kinds, Shakespeare, comedies, Disney, and others. I have also taken TDF’s training program back in 2007. So I am “TDF approved.” Also, one of their staff interpreters mentored me. So I’m on their shortlist and they contacted me to see if I was available for this one date. I said yes. To answer your question on the $1,000 payment, it is for one time, one interpreting gig, that’s it. So I said yes. And then a few days later, in the first week of April, I received another email that you’ve seen in the news and in discussions. When I read that email, when I read what it said, it took me aback. Because of the color of my skin? I believe that this is wrong. That’s when I called my attorney. I asked if they could say what was in the email. I’m not here to complain and become demanding that they hire me as an interpreter. The minute that I got the email, time froze. After that, I never had any further communication with them. I never demanded to get this job or commented that I was looking forward to it or dreamed about it. The email caused time to stop. I talked about it with my attorney and then took a backseat. It is wrong. It is wrong.
Alex: In the lawsuit, it alleges that “The Lion King” production violated a federal law that was intended to provide protection for other races that are not white. That law is to make sure that other races, such as Black people or Native people, are able to have equal rights that white people already have. It is to make right an injustice. But with this lawsuit, it’s a bit the opposite. You as a white person have “lost” your rights because of your race. So I’m curious how confident you are that you will prevail in court. Because it’s reversed?
Wann: I am very confident that we will prevail in court. This is not reverse discrimination. Regarding the law you are talking about, I am not a lawyer and am not an expert, but my lawyer has done the research. You mentioned that the law is to protect… in 1976 there was an amendment from Thurgood Marshall… I’m sorry, I’m correcting my sign of “amendment” as I meant to say that there was a decision by the Supreme Court that this law now applies to all. That was in 1976. Thurgood Marshall was the one who presided over the proceedings to pass this. So that’s why I want to add to what you said about “not covering white people” because it covers all races. So yes, we are confident.
Alex: I understand. So now you have filed a lawsuit. I am sure you have noticed that there are many people criticizing you, Keith, on social media. The comments, tweets, and other posts. Some people said that because you are a white person, and already a well-known person, you wouldn’t have a difficult time finding other interpreting jobs. Basically, you could have just been cool about it and allowed another Black interpreter to have that opportunity without raising issues. You would find it easy to find another job. What makes this worth it to you? The potential damage to your reputation? People who may have liked you may feel very differently now. What makes this worth it?
Wann: Wrong is wrong. I am standing up for that email I received. What they said — their decision is wrong. Substitute any race or any color with what they said and it’s wrong. I’m shocked they thought it was okay to say that. Right now this discussion — they are discussing something that this case is not about. This controversy is not about me “wanting” to claim an interpreting job. Like I said, once I got the email, I stopped. I didn’t respond. It was wrong. I would hope that any person who receives the same kind of email also moves forward to do something and stand up. Wrong is wrong. I realize that there is a controversy now. I have to stay steadfast in knowing that I’m doing the right thing. I made a decision and I want to show them that the email is a violation of the law.
[End interview]
I checked their explanation that the Supreme Court and Justice Thurgood Marshall made a ruling in 1976 that the law — 42 US Code Section 1981 — also protects white people. This is accurate. You can see a New York Times article with the headline, “Judge Rule Rights Laws Safeguard Whites Equally” with an image of Justice Marshall.
[Full-screen image showing the NYT article]
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So, whether this is a case of discrimination or not is now up to the federal court in Manhattan.
But many people have already shared their judgments in the “court of public opinion” on social media.
Here is an Instagram video from two BIPOC interpreters titled “Color vs Culture.” I am sharing the video with their permission.
[Video clip, Credit: Instagram/terpapin]
Paris McTizic: If a deaf person requests a Black interpreter. Would it be okay if a white interpreter was assigned?
Tiffany Hill: It’s not about the color of the skin. It is the culture.
Paris: I don't understand. Can you explain?
Tiffany: Okay I will explain. Suppose there are two white passing interpreters. One has a Jewish background. The other has an Italian background. Now, both could switch interpreting roles pretty well. But they have cultural differences. For myself and other Black interpreters, we understand the culture. We go into a space and immediately make a connection based on culture, not just the color of the skin.
Alex: Here is another Instagram video by a person named Roberta, which we are sharing with permission.
[Video clip]
Roberta: Reverse racism isn’t real. Hiring Black interpreters is not reverse racism against white people. Why? White hearing male interpreters hold a lot of power because they benefit from systemic racism and they can easily get gigs elsewhere. Naming it is essential to end racism because it causes harm to marginalized groups.
Alex: Here is one more Instagram video by Akilah English, which we are sharing with permission.
[Video clip, Credit: Instagram/akilah_phd]
Akilah English: Your feeling of being hurt is not the same as systemic oppression.
Alex: I have seen comments by people who are supportive of Wann. One person named Sherri said in a comment that this situation is absolutely ridiculous and screams discrimination.
[Text comment by Sherri:] “Keith is an ASL “Access Provider” with decades of experience in Broadway interpreting. While cultural appropriation is important, Keith was contacted to do his job. Like any job, discrimination is illegal. (Read the fine print on any job application/description) Like any job, especially in interpreting, quality, level of skill and full accessibility is imperative for the deaf community. It’s the interpreter’s job to provide full access, it’s TDF’s job to accept accountability in hiring the appropriate person for this role. I stand with Keith, TDF basically failed to vet and make sure an appropriate cast of interpreters are available for this performance. They failed to follow the chain of command.”
Alex: That’s all that I have to share for now on this controversy and lawsuit.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/ChdKk9Ypmlh/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y%3D