Interview with Marlee Matlin and Daniel Durant

Alex: Hello, Marlee and Daniel! I’m really happy to have you both here with us about the exciting CODA movie. There's been a lot of buzz and positive comments about it lately, and it will be released this weekend. Wow.

Marlee, you have been in acting for many years, and her acting tends to be as the only Deaf person in a leading role, but in this film she plays alongside two other deaf main roles. What was different about this experience on set and filming in this process? What was different about this one?

Marlee Matlin: I’ve been in the Hollywood business for 35 years, and I’ve often worked alone in different movies and television shows. As the only deaf person, I wish there would be more deaf people to work with, and being alone with an interpreter on set with hearing coworkers, but I’m used to it. Yes. It was always in the back of my mind that there should be more deaf actors and more deaf people behind the camera, but I put up with it. Sometimes there would be situations where there would be other deaf characters and I wasn’t alone, and I was thrilled to work with them, eat together, study together, and practice together. I did Switched at Birth, which had deaf characters in there, and other experiences which were nice. Spring Awakening was with other deaf actors and deaf people behind the scenes. But the most common experience was being the only deaf person in a hearing environment, and that can become lonely, yes. Not in a bad way, but… I would just be on my own, have lunch with the interpreter, or be alone in my trailer. But this time was a gift, hands-down a gift, to have a whole deaf character to chat with in 110% ASL here, there, there, and there including ASL masters, Anne and Alexandria, a director who signs, and crew members who were learning to sign. I felt like I was home. I was in my element. I look forward to many more.

Alex: I can imagine that was an interactive experience. Now, Daniel, CODA is the first movie with burn-in captions.

Daniel Durant: Finally.

Alex: The first of its kind. That’s big. Yes. Daniel, remember about two years ago you released a viral video of you signing that you were disappointed that you had just gone to a local film with a deaf actor at their premiere but there were no captions, and you were upset.

[Daniel Durant clip (Credit NowThis)]

Alex: Now, do you feel things are better and have improved in terms of access to captions with CODA’s release? What are your thoughts on that?

Daniel: Really, I was shocked and thrilled when the Apple team told me that all CODA movies will have open captions, on all CODA movie theater screens. I was so shocked. Like, FINALLY. At that time, when I made that video in my car, I expressed my frustrations because I know all deaf people experience that every day. I’m sick of using technology like glasses that aren’t comfortable on my ears, and are a struggle to use, and issues that often come up like running out of batteries come up that lead to us missing parts of the film or the whole thing. But now with the CODA film release with open captions, all of us can enter the movie theater, get popcorn and pop, and chat, and get ready for the movie like everyone does. We don’t have to worry about technical issues and worry about whether it’ll be ready or not with captions. Captions will be ready right there on the screen! I’m so happy to see that happening. I hope this will lead to change after the CODA movie release and lead to other movies doing the same. Really, I am so grateful to Apple, who bought our movie, and fully support us with our access and everything to make this happen. This is a time in history and I’m honored to be a part of this too.

Alex: I understand. It’s historical and it’s an honor to be a part of it, and also thanks to Apple. It’s nice, we can always point to that new standard and regardless of your opinion of the film CODA, it’s a standard for the concept of open captions being embedded in the movie. That standard should be set for future screenings.

Now, Marlee, I wonder… I read in Hollywood Reporter magazine, which you were on the cover of…!

[Hollywood Reporter magazine cover]

Alex: I read that before the production of the film, those on the production team already envisioned Marlee as having the role of the mother, but that the production did think of possibly using hearing actors for the other major roles. You said "No!" and you were ready to walk out and not accept that role. I’m curious, can you explain what happened and how you stood up and convinced them to use deaf actors?

Marlee: Really, it comes down to this. The studio had me as a part of it already, but they said they thought for box office profit and attention that it would attract more people to go to the movie with bigger celebrities’ names. I said, you mean pretend for Troy’s character, Frank, who is actually deaf, in the film? Oh. If so… I’ll back out. It’s not right. It’s not ethical. It’s not a proper representation of our culture. But… It’s Hollywood and the way they work and the way they perceive things, the way they think about the box office. That was before Apple TV plus jumped in. That was before the pandemic. Hmm. But… We worked it out, and they realized that it’s not right. So I thanked them for that. I hope that.. Let me back up. I don’t hope. I trust that more studios and independent studios, people with money who can invest money to make movies happen, will understand representation is number one. So… Yeah. I’m not interested in working with hearing actors who act like they’re deaf because a deaf person is not a costume. Enough of that.

Daniel: Thank you, Marlee, for doing that. Thank you.

Marlee: Thank you.

Alex: See the impact now, that the movie is on billboards all around… There are three deaf actors with one hearing person, in billboards and magazines. Wow. The impact of your decision to stand up… I can imagine it wasn’t easy.

Marlee: No. I’ll add to that. On the billboards you see, with CODA, there are different pictures - that you see on screen… With the CODA movie, it’s in different areas in LA, but I shared a video where I said... Look. Deaf actors blown up.

[Clip of Marlee pointing to a billboard from Instagram/themarleematlin ]

Marlee: Finally. I don’t mean it’s the first time, no. There are others, like A Quiet Place, with Millicent Simmonds. What I mean is finally - there are more and more deaf actors shown on billboards.

Daniel: Right.

Marlee: And many more to come.

Daniel: Yes. I look forward to seeing more like that.

Alex: There are many different film industry people in LA driving around who see these billboards. It’s spreading that message, that’s nice.

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Alex: Daniel, people told me that you’re a method actor, meaning you really implement the role and become that character. How did you integrate yourself into your character, Leo Rossi? Can you explain the process you use?

Daniel: Ok. I wonder who told you… I wonder who these people are!

As a method actor, yes, I use method acting. When I get a character, I always study the role in depth, and do my homework on the character. For example, like Leo’s character… When I got the role, I was excited, and I noticed that Leo’s character and I, Daniel, have a lot of things in common. Leo is a very strong person with a strong Deaf identity who is very family oriented, same with Daniel, who has a passion for acting. There are similarities, but Leo is an avid fisherman and lives in a small town with a deaf family with a hearing community. So I studied what his life was like. I also took training as a fisherman, me and Troy, and Emilie, who acts as Ruby. We went on a fishing boat to train with five other real fishermen who taught me how to fish with a nest, different fish, and other things. I trained hard, and it’s important to open your mind, and… As Daniel, my goal is to focus on this new character, and I enjoy it because I learn what this character goes through, so I learn more about different people in general.

Alex: Do you still fish?

Daniel: Maybe a little bit. Honestly, sometimes I do feel that Leo is still a part of me sometimes. Sometimes it happens.

Marlee: May I add something?

Alex: Go ahead.

Marlee: Daniel and I worked together on Spring Awakening on Broadway, and I’ve observed him as a stage actor, but before, on Switched at Birth, we had a scene together, where I grabbed him on a ladder.

Daniel: Yes!

Marlee: But I remember him in Switched at Birth, then you moved to theatre for a long time… Two or three years in theatre.

Daniel: Yes.

Marlee: Then on the movie set for the first time. The first day I watched him, really three weeks before rehearsal, we worked together, with ASL masters, Anne and Alexandria, and directors, and the cast. We kept rehearing and being with each other, but I watched him as an actor grow to become an amazing actor. You already have experience and were a great actor before, but in a different way. I am truly proud of him.

Daniel: Thank you.

Marlee: I know people will be amazed when the movie comes out. Who’s that? This will work for him going forward.

Daniel: Thank you. I love you.

Marlee: ILY.

Alex: Wow. Now, relating to that, Daniel has been a stage actor. You were part of the Switched at Birth series, and now you’re a part of a big feature film. How do you think this will impact your acting opportunities in the future? Perhaps with more films, or on stage? What is your vision for your future, Daniel?

Daniel: Some people have been asking me which I would prefer, to act on stage or be a part of a series, or movie. I always answer that… I like both. Both have different challenges. Both have their own paths. I learned… I’ll never forget that I was acting on stage, and then I became a part of Switched at Birth and I will never forget that on the first day on set when I was ready to shoot, I started signing, then they had to put it on hold. I wondered what was up, then that ASL master, Marlee’s interpreter JJ who worked with Switched at Birth, said I was signing too big and told me to slow down and tone it down, because on film… It’s blurry. Because the screen would zoom in, meaning my energy, expressions should be toned down a bit. On the stage, with an audience with hundreds of seats there would be seats at the end so I had to make sure I had enough energy to act on stage and reach the last row. So, both experiences are completely different. But after CODA, I do hope for more series and film opportunities. I want to gain experience. Of course, on stage too. I want more TV and movie opportunities.

Alex: Understood. It’s funny how signing big for the audience is different than being on camera. Makes sense.

Marlee, you did many projects. Now, after CODA, and watching the Sundance film festival, which you’ve seen, and it will come out on Apple soon. Can you describe your feelings, like do you feel proud? What are your feelings on the film CODA?

Marlee: This project… I fell in love with it when I read the script the first time. I had to do it. I wanted to do it. It was authentic, accessible, inclusive. I shared about this in another interview, that this is just one example of a story that happens in deaf households. It’s one of millions of stories that we in the deaf community need to capture in movies, TV, or on stage, to depict our deaf culture and the beauty of it. It’s just one piece that turned into a movie. I’m looking forward to people watching it for the first time who have never seen a deaf person or have never seen sign language, or a hearing person living with deaf parents and siblings. People will realize that oh, there’s more to it than just people like us can’t hear and that’s all. We are people, too. We do everything just like hearing people do except for hearing the same way hearing people do. That’s all.

Alex: Understood. I think now, about the audience’s reaction, I’m sure you’re looking forward to it after this weekend’s release and it’s nice that it will have open captions attached to the film meaning everybody can just go and watch it.

Marlee: And… people will have different perspectives, which is fine. Like any other movie. But this time, this one has authentic deaf actors. We’re in our element. It’s our culture. It’s our story. Plus hearing with music. That’s fine. Music in my family in real life, my kids are hearing, and I’m not shutting them out or shutting music out. I like music. Some don’t, and that’s fine. It’s just a different perspective, and that’s fine. It’s just a movie, with a beautiful story. That’s all.

Daniel: Agreed.

Alex: Any last comments, Daniel?

Daniel: I agree with Marlee’s comments. I’m excited about CODA and its representation. I’m proud to be an authentic deaf actor, but what I like about this movie is that this movie is about family. It’s about the story, and what happens, to make people resonate with it, and deaf and singing is a unique aspect of it. It’s a deaf family with a CODA. But they can watch it as a family movie. I like that. I’m really excited to see what happens in the future and how far CODA will go.

Marlee: There are different layers in that film, and many people will identify them in different ways. There are different things to identify with. The humor in it is the best.

Daniel: Yes!

Alex: I’m looking forward to the release. I really appreciate your time, and congratulations on making a big impact with that representation and it having open captions. Apple TV also bought it at a record price, and it’s a big milestone.

Marlee: And the director. The director fought for us to get open captions. He did, with Apple TV+, both of them. Really… She did that, she had to, so I hope other studios will follow suit with that approach too.

Alex: This is having many types of impact, and I’m proud of you. Thank you for fighting for true representation and for putting ourselves out there. Thank you for your time interviewing us, I really appreciate it.

Marlee: And Alex, thank you for what you do for us, too. Thank you.

Alex: It’s an honor.

Daniel: Thank you, thank you. Stay with the light.

*****The #CODAFilm will be available in select theaters and everywhere on Apple TV + on Friday, August 13.

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